Here's a study on the effectiveness of water, maalox, milk, baby shampoo, and lidocaine for your eyeballs after pepper spray.

They're all the same effectiveness.
But water doesn't mark protestors, and no one is allergic to it.

@Cyborgneticz worth noting that the study linked didn't study effects on eyeballs, but on skin. Hard to judge without access to the full article but from the abstract, it sounds like none of the treatments helped after the subject rinsed themselves off.

@Cyborgneticz Also, none of them really helped, since only time made a significant difference.

@leth @Cyborgneticz What would be the role of the control group in that study design and what would they control for?

@jaranta @Cyborgneticz
The efficiency of the methods in relation to doing nothing.

@leth If you look at the abstract you can see that they have time as the only effective measure.

"In this study, there was no significant difference in pain relief provided by five different treatment regimens. Time after exposure appeared to be the best predictor for decrease in pain."

Clearly the context of time exposure that of between the methods. As for the efficiency of using any of these methods in comparison to doing nothing is not dealt with in the study. We should not make conclusions about the comparison to no treatment at all without a study that has a control group. That is the importance of a control group.

@leth I think you're confusing treatment with exposure. If you read the results section again, I'm pretty sure it refers to time after exposure, not treatment. I don't see how else to read it, since there was no interaction between time and treatment.


I'm not. Clearly the result only speaks for the time after exposure for any of the treatments, but not for no treatment at all.

@leth Okay. I'm pretty confident in my ability to read scientific abstracts, but feel free to read the whole paper if you want to be sure. My interest in discussing research methodology with strangers is spent. Have a good day!

@leth @jaranta I don't know if that'd be necessary because tear gas, pepper spray, etc. are typically fine after 30 minutes. It sounds like you're interested in seeing if there's a placebo effect?

@Cyborgneticz @jaranta
Not really, there are better studies that have shown the removing the Capsaicin matters. How this is done seems rather irrelevant. I just wanted to point out that this study didn't really deal with wether such treatment is effective but rather that how it's done doesn't matter much.

@leth @jaranta Can you link me those studies? I don't mean this in an aggressive manner, but I'd like to have them and share them with folks.
To be clear finding this article came out of a debate that milk is better and more effective than water, so in finding it I was more interested in finding something that talked about milk and water.

@Cyborgneticz @jaranta

Schep, Leo J et al. “Riot control agents: the tear gases CN, CS and OC-a medical review.” Journal of the Royal Army Medical Corps vol. 161,2 (2015): 94-9. doi:10.1136/jramc-2013-000165

Yeung, M F, and William Y M Tang. “Clinicopathological effects of pepper (oleoresin capsicum) spray.” Hong Kong medical journal = Xianggang yi xue za zhi vol. 21,6 (2015): 542-52. doi:10.12809/hkmj154691

@jaranta I didn't see a problem with that because time is always the determining factor and you use the substances just for immediate aid in seeing/cleaning out your mouth

@Cyborgneticz @jaranta they used water for immediate aid in *all* of the treatment groups, so if that's the factor then they didn't test any treatments other than water.

The issue with none of the treatments working in the experiment is that if any treatments do help, then that means they didn't test the treatment correctly — and their conclusions won't generalize to people who are using the treatments correctly.

@octopus this isnt an issue to me because people mix treatments so people will use water and then MAALOX after. An additional study would be good and we need more studies of decontamination

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