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What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

For every gross dude you tolerate, there's almost certainly several people who are pushed out of that space you created for him

The more influential the gross dude, the more people will emulate him and help to push out even more people

And it's mostly women who get pushed out

So for the likes of RMS and Torvalds, the damage they have done to the field of Computer Science may be incalculable

Good riddance

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

Everyone who works in tech or CS: Wow yeah haha computers suck, it's a wonder anything works at all lol

Also those same people: Yeah I'm totally cool with literally halving the potential contributors to tech; this is a rational position,,, too me

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What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle I’m one of those women, pushed out by the larger toxic culture they’ve condoned into free software at large.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@vy Ugh fuck that

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle it seemed last I checked that Linus was at least starting to become aware of how problematic his actions were instead of doubling down and insisting he's right? I haven't followed the situation closely, but it seemed to be slowly improving.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@technomancy @bgcarlisle I think he was forced into that position of awareness, from the flossip I've heard.

But that's still progress, I suppose.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@cwebber @bgcarlisle ah, well at least ESR has stopped trying to claim leadership in the community

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle

> damage they have done to the field of Computer Science may be incalculable

I think the harm to CS is less significant than the harm to the victims. The women driven away both suffered abuse and also had their opportunities to explore technology hurt or destroyed. Tech can be fun and lucrative.

We screwed up letting these people lead for so long.

re: What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle Good point; I remember hearing a customer service rule-of-thumb that if one person complains it means there are 100 other customers out there who are pissed off but don't say anything. If that's true, its implications are horrifying.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@lorabe @bgcarlisle the problem is building a cult of personality around these aholes in the first place. Just because they wrote some code doesn’t make them gods. It’s just code! Have the courage to form your own opinions and stop worshiping people just because of how many checkins they’ve made

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@lorabe @bgcarlisle well most people know the facts of this and have formed conclusions. In my opinion the conclusion is forgone from the facts. But if you would like to debate the facts or concluding start by asking you to state the facts as you understand them and we can discuss like civil open minded people

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@lorabe @bgcarlisle ps frankly I agree with RMS on many of his positions. But also he has these other ideas that are so outrageous it beyond the pale. I’m on agreeing with him on certain points and also be revulsed by him. I can separate these things and I’m ok with it. Overall I still think he’s an ahole

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@lorabe @bgcarlisle you are dodging the question of what are the original facts. In this case I would say yes absolutely it’s justified. What RMS said is it’s ok to have sex with a minor. That’s pedophilia and it’s rape . Those opinions are abhorrent. If you are willing to discuss those facts we can discuss them reasonably

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@CaptMorgan @lorabe Please untag me from the remainder of this discussion, thanks!

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle

Grace Hopper in her heyday would have punched RMS in the face and then schooled his ass into the ground, unquestionably

she had numerous wrestling belts. you did not fuck around with Grace Hopper

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@sydneyfalk @bgcarlisle Grandma Cobol was awesome, to say the least.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@xmanmonk @bgcarlisle

the world is poorer for her passing; may we never forget the woman who convinced the Navy computers were useful beyond trajectories and triangulating targets

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle Shit, I never considered this. Having two assholes is /maybe/ fine if it's just two assholes. Having those two assholes idolized is where all of this toxic shit everywhere comes from.

People look at me IRL, see a cis man, and assume I'm an expert and that I belong here. It's the opposite online in places other than Mastodon. If I were treated like I'm treated in IRC everywhere, I would be totally lost. Passion beaten out of me.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle

Yeah for all the people whining about how we shouldn't inject politics into this but you can't neglect that aspect if you want meaningful change.

What RMS, Torvalds and the like cost us 

@bgcarlisle

Toot got cut off for some reason, but point is you cannot expect a world in which you do not require proprietary software for important tasks if no one will back you up either in protest or programming efforts

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