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Did I ever tell you my problem with making curry? 

Actually

It was a naan issue

If god is all-powerful *and* omniscient

Could he cook a curry so spicy

That even he would be surprised at how spicy it tastes?

@bgcarlisle I mean, taking into account what has happened on Earth, I'd guess God's not making anything, ever, out of sheer fear.

@bgcarlisle If you believe God created everything at once and some of it changed over time, and that God allows for humans to have free will, then God had limited involvement in humans hybridizing chili peppers. In this case, he absolutely could be surprised by a Carolina Reaper or Dragon's Breath (assuming he chose to not use his powers to check for Scoville levels ahead of time.)

@erinbee @bgcarlisle But God is *outside* of time and presumably has (from our perspective) "always" known about humans growing chili peppers. Furthermore, God , as pure actuality, is the ultimate originator of spiciness, the source which all spicy things have in common, and the spiciness God knows is the purest spiciness surpassing anything humans could create in our inconstant and fallen world. In this essay I will

@nev @bgcarlisle The question isn't if God and spiciness are one or if the spiciness falls outside the realm of God's boundless knowledge, the question is if he could be surprised. And if he follows his own law to respect the free will of humans, it is also possible for him to mostly view our creations as being the product of that same free will. If God didn't interfere with the creation of the peppers, he can still be surprised before absorbing and attaining that knowledge.

@erinbee @bgcarlisle but does respecting/not interfering with our free will preclude *knowing* what we freely choose? I'm not sure that is one of the mainstream theological views.

Uhhh hey @Cyborgneticz get in here, you know some Jesuits, right? Can you ask them something for us

@Cyborgneticz @nev @erinbee It was a silly joke but I am here for the exhaustively thorough examination of the theological implications

@bgcarlisle @nev @erinbee Hmm so I'm on mobile cause my laptop is goofing around so as I respond I see none of the posts.
OK.
That being said - the natural world follows divine law. Seemingly this means God would know of peppers however that refers strictly to things like natural processes ie evolution migration etc. People's changes of the everyday world is in the lens of free will and God would be aware of the possible different outcomes of the pepper it'd still be

@nev @Cyborgneticz @bgcarlisle @erinbee I would think the omniscience and lack of tense (there is no current or future, just a wibble wobble timey wimey) would mean God knows and has always known. I don’t think surprises are a thing for them. But I haven’t done theology classes since 2007 and I haven’t kept up with stuff. I left Christianity through my degree 😂

@bgcarlisle @Cyborgneticz @nev @erinbee my Anselmian contribution to this debate is that if God has all positive attributes to the maximum degree, and if spicyness is a positive attribute, God itself must be the spiciest being that exists. Thus, the spiciest curry must be God-based and God-spiced. That still leaves open the question if God would be surprised by the spiciest curry, but then it becomes a question about God's self-knowledge.

@okf @bgcarlisle @Cyborgneticz @nev @erinbee 🌶️ Just to check if I get this clear: the suggestion that God itself must be the spiciest being that exists does *not* need a CW??
🌶️ And, to keep up the scholarly level of this thread, let me throw in the suggestion that the analogy between this debate and the question of strong emergence calls for further research.

Anselmian theology 

@SylviaFysica @bgcarlisle @Cyborgneticz @nev @erinbee Sylvia, sorry for the CW faux pas. The suggestion that people would agree with the Anselmian approach and the notion of positive attributes was surely out of line.

@okf @bgcarlisle @Cyborgneticz @nev @erinbee I’m going to see at least one rabbi this weekend. Guess what I’m going to ask them.

The Bible, Flamin' Hot Free Will 

@nev @bgcarlisle @Cyborgneticz If we're talking about Christian, Old Testament God, based on the story of Lot, God might not necessarily know what will be chosen. He sends angels ahead of time to tell Lot to leave and what the consequences will be if he or his family look back at the city. Did he know Lot's wife would turn around, or did he just know that it was one choice out of every choice she could ever make?

The Bible, Flamin' Hot Free Will 

@erinbee @nev @bgcarlisle I think perhaps God exists in a space of liminality there is all knowledge and Being but also it is not Yet.
I pulled out my Bible for this

The Bible, Flamin' Hot Free Will 

@Cyborgneticz @erinbee @nev @bgcarlisle pulling this out of my ass but I tend to think that God can see the possible outcomes of all of our choices, but doesn't know what, specifically, we will choose to do until we do it

The Bible, Flamin' Hot Free Will 

@Cyborgneticz @erinbee @bgcarlisle I'm asking you to pull out your Aquinas

The Bible, Flamin' Hot Free Will 

@nev @erinbee @bgcarlisle K I pulled my Aquinas out. Turns out the Aquinas.
So the importance here is - what are we asking about. If we are thinking about the natural status and evolution of peppers then that is eternal, interconnected to the divine and thereby inseparable from God.
The problem here is discerning the role of humans in this curry. If humans have changed the peppers to suit ourseles this isn't necessarily separate from God.

@bgcarlisle and the devil tempted jesus, saying, You could feed these thousands with only a few loaves, but surely you cannot also feed them with NaN bread?

Did I ever tell you my problem with making curry? 

@bgcarlisle
Reminds me of a time I was looking for a bug in my NumPy code. Turns out it was a NaN issue.

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