@petrichor @bgcarlisle @yoyehudi I have asked questions, I have not attacked anyone or anything. Anyone willing to engage is free to do so, any not willing is free to ignore it.

I am not attacking, I am not disagreeing with your beliefs, I am asking questions to understand

@FPinaMartins @d3 Recebi deles por email depois de os contactar, já respondi e vou ver se os convenço a mudar 😅

@FPinaMartins @d3
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Isto serve para impedir que sejam carregados ficheiros maliciosos de forma anónima e que possamos garantir de alguma forma uma maior segurança na proteção dos dados."

@bgcarlisle @yoyehudi @petrichor

I will not argue further since I believe we have both made our viewpoints clear to each other:
I deeply believe questioning every viewpoint is important: asking why was Hitler wrong is important for us to understand and prevent it from happening again.

Likewise I asked where the boundaries between intrinsic limitations and immoral discrimination lie, and still will.

Your reply leads me to ask why playing Devil's advocate devalues any of the sides involved 😂

@bgcarlisle @yoyehudi @petrichor So there are topics in which I should take the prevailing topic without questioning and understanding?

@bgcarlisle @yoyehudi @petrichor I am playing devil's advocate precisely to understand this topic, and I have read (and interviewed people myself) in this area, so I want to learn.

I would not suggest hiring someone with motor disabilities for motor work, like high voltage power line maintenance, and as such I am trying to learn the difference between natural constraints in work ability and constraints created purely by human bias, which unfortunately also exist plenty.

Thoughts?

@petrichor @bgcarlisle @yoyehudi True, let me correct it. I would not suggest someone with motor disabilities for assisting Stephen Hawking or doing high voltage power line maintenance, and as such there are disabilities which impair the ability for someone to do their job fully

From here I am trying to understand where is the line between what is justified hiring based an the candidates abilities and what is discrimination

@yoyehudi @bgcarlisle @petrichor I love the ideal, I disagree that it can be put to practice that easily.

Reasoning: I wouldn't hire a disable person to do high pole voltage maintenance ( do tell me if you think otherwise, but I do believe it to be impractical ).

The question is not whether disabilities close off paths, but where is the line between what jobs do disabilities get in the way of and which don't. Academia shouldn't be affected at all by disabilities IMO, that we both agree on.

@bgcarlisle @petrichor @yoyehudi So would you hire someone disabled as Stephen haking's assistant? That seems counter productive since you are being hired precisely to assist someone who is disabled.

@bgcarlisle @petrichor @yoyehudi Does that just apply to grant funders?

Example, would it not be ok for Elon Musk to not employ people with disabilities at the production facilities of Tesla since the loss in productivity is too big, so in the trade off between greener environment and inclusion the choice was made towards a greener environment?

This obviously doesn't apply for academia, but I'm curious to know of instances where disability based discrimination could be justified, if any

@yoyehudi @petrichor I agree that it won't happen immediately, and for many not at all. Even the authors of the book blindspot tested biased against racial minorities in their Implicit Bias Test, and they were fighting against racism their all lives.

My argument is that normalizing exposure will allow the next generation not to be subconsciously biased, whereas trying to hide it from view will delay that process.

@petrichor @yoyehudi Is keeping those traits from public view beneficial? We all know the quality of Stephen's Hawking work inspite of his condition (even though he started his academic life before it, which made his involvment easier), and most of those terrible decisions are due to unconscious biases we have and shouldn't. Wouldn't wider exposure, including during interviews, lead to a normalization of hiring neurodivergent people into many roles?

@petrichor @yoyehudi Unfortunately I forget the name of the software I used myself in the past as a candidate, but the idea is that you can do as many drafts as you want to prepare and see what you look like. When that happens and you're satisfied, you have a short window (usually 2 minutes) to make the final presentation, preventing you from any detailed video editing. Would this solve your concern?

@petrichor @yoyehudi What if people had the choice to use video or written material, as they prefer? The main argument I see for video is the time costs saved by both the person applying and the institution. That is why many larger corporations are using video cover letters in their job applications, using software that allows you to start whenever you want but once you do you only have 2 minutes to complete the video (ensuring that you don't spend days tailoring and editing the video)

@yoyehudi @petrichor How is that different from hiring professional copywriters?

(Playing devil's advocate here 😜 )

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